Short answer: Absolutely.
Longtime Adobe customers have been very clear in their comments here throughout the last year: they’ve invested serious money with the company over the years, and they want that to be honored as we move forward.
Adobe agrees, so check this out:
- If you own CS3 or later:
- You can get Creative Cloud Complete (the whole $2,600 Master Collection & more) for $29.99/month. Even better, if you own CS6, you can get Complete for $19.99/month (60% off the new-user price of $49.99).
- If you don’t need or want everything in Complete, you can get Photoshop CC and other new CC apps for $9.99/month. That’s about 35 cents per day.
[Update: These prices are an intro deal for a 12-month commitment.]
216 thoughts on “Shouldn't loyal Adobe customers get a discount moving to Creative Cloud?”
Not directed at you John.
Not entirely sure why Adobe thinks that everyone is just going to run to the monthly subscription bandwagon. Looks like I’ll be looking to standardize on CS6 for all of my users and then start considering alternatives.
If, say, Adobe were to say that we can no longer upgrade our boxed versions … I simply wouldn’t move to the cloud on principle. That would be the end of the line for me and I would simply continue to use my CS6 in perpetuity.
Completely Agree – no matter how Adobe spins this – we are renting our software instead of owning it and we have to call home every three months for permission to use it even if we paid for the whole year. Can’t believe they actually did this although the writing was on the wall. Does Dr. Warnock really approve of these developments?
Might be time to write (actual paper) letters to the board and let them know how e disapprove of this subscription only mess. It would be great if we could compile a list of addresses and throw that up on a website. Imagine if the board members received a couple thousand actual letters in the mail. Do you think they might listen then?
I asked John if there was an address I could mail a complaint to and did not get a response.
[Sorry, I’m just totally overwhelmed by the volume of comments. I don’t know of a single address offhand. –J.]
It might be just $9.99 for a single app in the good old USA. In the UK it’s £17.58!!!!!!!!
Adobe rips UK off yet again!
time too look out for alternatives!!
maybe corel makes a comeback!!! 🙂
I’ve not used any of the recent version of CorelDRAW, so I can’t say if they’ve managed to shake the bad rep they got for bugginess and instability in the past. I know from reviews that they’ve caught up a bit with Adobe. Might be worth downloading a 30-day trial and giving it a tyre-kick. Obvious proviso is that this isn’t an optimal solutions for Mac people.
I’ll echo what Robert said – with Creative Cloud taking out the expense of physical media, packaging and printed material, there is even less excuse for the price differential between the US and UK. Doubly so for our Canadian and Australian counterparts!
boy.. it´s whole europe.. what do you think we pay in germany?
Actually, it’s £8.78/month to get Photoshop when upgrading from CS3+ (which is what $9.99 USD is).
James, that £17.58 was what Adobe had on their Creative Cloud pricing information page last night – I went and checked. Hopefully, that was just a case of their not having updated with the new prices yet, but it’s unfortunate timing if that’s the case.
UK, Germany, the Netherlands … suppose the whole of the EU is getting robbed. Let’s ask Bruxelles to resolve.
So the only suckers are us long time users who actually got into Creative Cloud from the start then?
If you’d moved up from CS3 or later, you definitely got the benefit of the $29.99/mo deal for the first year of the Complete package. Of course, after the 12 months are up, it goes up to $49.99/mo – how much of a pain that is for you depends on how many Adobe apps you require for your work, and how much it would cost you to do the boxed upgrades instead. For me personally, it still works out cheaper than an upgrade that would have netted me fewer apps. YMMV.
Is this 19.99 pricing for CS6 owners in perpetuity?
[No, it’s for a 12-month commitment. I’ll add a clarification. –J.]
1. Are those prices for the first year only?
2. The US-to-European price difference has been huge historically. Photoshop CS5 in Sweden cost as much as Production Premium in the US. I’d love to see the local prices as soon as possible.
[I’ll try to find those. –J.]
I’m Dutch, our upgrade prices look like this:
Special pricing for existing customers
CS3 and later get Complete for €36,89
CS6 customers get Complete for €24,59
CS3 and later get Single App for €12,29
All offers require annual commitment
Not sure about Sweden.
The current monthly price for Creative Cloud in Sweden is $87. There’s no way I could afford that; that’s more than I spend on food every month.
Wow! How do you manage that, just came back from Sweden and food is soooo expensive there? It’s often 50-100% more than in UK.
Props to Adobe for jumping in headfirst. I bet there is a lot of benefit to the company to have the ability to have the majority of your customers on the most recent versions of your software. I bet that makes support much simpler.
As a CS user for the past I don’t know how many years and beyond, I’ve been coming around to the Creative Cloud sentiment even before the announcement to end of line CS. From a cost perspective, it’s cheaper for me to purchase Creative Cloud (for Teams, mind you) with the understanding that I typically upgrade our software every 2-3 years. A Creative Cloud subscription over that term is less expensive than purchasing CS outright and upgrading every 3 years or so.
I’d love to be able to have ONE annual charge though, instead of a charge to my card every month. Anyway to get that through, John?
Yes. You can purchase a full year up front from a reseller like Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Creative-Membership-Pre-Paid-Product/dp/B007W7A1OY/
I’m an odd duck. I own CS6 and subscribed to Muse on a monthly basis. If I subscribe to the full CC will that replace my Muse contract?
It won’t automatically, but if you go to https://creative.adobe.com/account/plans you can see and edit your existing subscription.
Hi Paul, you can. See the topic “Upgrade single-app memberships to a full Creative Cloud membership” here for ways to do this:
What will be the support policy for CS6 when Apple and MS update their OSs?
I must support CS5 as my full time only contract partner is using that, and we share files. If I move to the cloud I would loose control of which versions I can use, as the Creative Cloud only supports the previous version for one year. Is it possible to be more flexible. I am being held back by my client and I do not want to have to pay for both boxed upgrades as well as the Creative Cloud.
you are a piece of shit!!!
[Wow, I stand corrected about everything ever, thanks to your thoughtful voice of reason. –J.]
I own Production Premium and one extra license of PS.
To update PP I usually spend ~$300 per 2 years.
Now I will be spending $600 per ONE year (outside
of the promotion period). So to me this is 4 times
[It’s of course fine to compare different paths, but I think your numbers are off. You’re ignoring the substantial up-front cost of Production Premium/PS (which is a real barrier to a lot of would-be users), and if I recall correctly the upgrade price was higher than $300. (For Photoshop alone it’s typically $199.) –J.]
Also Production Premium is the perfect
set of tools for what I do. Why not to create a set like that
and charge it $19/month? I think I would pay $19/month
for 3 packages. Sorry John, no matter how I look at it,
it’s not the same value anymore.
Also if I have any issue of license checking and I’m
in the middle of fixing an important project and don’t
have an internet access for any reason, I’m screwed…
[You only have to have network access once every 99 days. That doesn’t seem so terribly onerous, does it? –J.]
Wow, you are a professional and you can’t afford $50 a month for your software? Software that requires hundreds of thousands of man hours to create? Do you want to only pay $1000 for a ferrari? Or 5 grand for a house? Your sense of value is really bizarre.
I am a professional. But not all professionals make $80k per year. We work in different markets doing different design for different clients. Some don’t make that much money, so yes, $50 per month can be expensive.
Well, yeah. Who wouldn’t???
I hope you never have a bad year, Greg. I hope you’re never in a position where you have to cut expenditures to the bone and work your ass off chasing clients in order to keep a roof over your head.
In the past if that happened (and it has happened to a lot of us), you could always say, “I can’t afford the upgrade from CS6 to CS7…I’ll just stick with CS6 for a year or two and pay full price for CS8 when I’m back on my feet.” You can’t do that any more. Adobe have enforced an upgrade scheme. You have to use the versions they tell you to and if you stop paying them you can’t do any work.
And, of course, the price is also higher than what Design Standard, Design and Web Premium, or Production Premium costs for a yearly upgrade.
So we’re expected to pay more per year, we have to keep paying forever, and we have to pray that that they don’t change the price, or that they don’t start turning vital features into optional subscription add-ons, or that the next forced upgrade to come down the pike doesn’t break some vital part of our workflow.
One more question – for all those discount offers –
your website says “offer expiring soon”. I would hope
this offer stays at least till the end of 2013.
That would add some value to my CS6 and then I would
use the offer starting Jan 2014 for example to have one
year of full CS6 for $19/month…
The real question is, “shouldn’t Adobe be loyal to long time customers” and offer the software in a none CC mode.
I’m not sold on the subscription method of delivery but would like to have some of the new features. Sort of like calling a cab rather than owning a car…:-(
This seems to be a profoundly bad move for Adobe. As a heavy user of Photoshop since version 3 (1994) at my university job and a painstaking observer of license terms (recently bought a separate, personal copy of CS6 design & web premium to use at home), I never thought I’d seriously plan to jump ship. Now I’m itching to find the best exit path. Sad times.
look out for corel… they will come back with a great standalone product!!
– You’re ignoring the substantial up-front cost of Production Premium/PS (which is a real barrier to a lot of would-be users)
– So I guess it’s clear – CC is a good deal for a new user,
or let’s call it “someone who HAS NOT paid” –
but it’s a terrible deal for a loyal customer.
[No, it’s a great deal for loyal customers, too. But it sounds like what you want isn’t a good deal, you want a *better* deal than others get. And that’s why Adobe’s offering even more aggressive deals for existing customers (particularly if you’ve stayed current and own CS6). Beyond that, I’m not sure what you want us to do. –J.]
what we want adobe to do…. well sell boxed versions you genius!!!
Continue to offer boxed versions for those of us that don’t wish to rent.
When I look at my bookshelf, I see boxes for:
This works for me. Why would I want to tie myself into a subscription account that means I’m constantly paying for the “privilege” of being allowed to use Adobe software?
Get real, guys!
im glad we in europe are allowed to pay more then twice as much!!!
The $49.95/month package costs €61.50/month, which is equivalent to $80.42. That’s a pretty substantial difference…
All from https://creative.adobe.com/plans
well he will tell you it´s still a great deal.
and hey we are supporting the americans who will get it cheaper.
At one moment, Adobe will eventually put in big bold type : 49.99$ WITHOUT TAX in the US (because every state applies its own), and 61.49€ WORST TAX INCLUDED (23%, EC’s VAT mean is 21.24%, may be some weighted mean).
Much appreciated that you’re prepared to discuss this stuff with us like this.
In the UK our plan prices, excluding the initial CS6 discount, are £17.58 (monthly for a single app) or £46.88 (monthly for the lot). I assume the suites of apps aren’t coming back, but it’d be great to be able to pay £30 a month or so for the equivalent of CS6’s Design Premium set.
Just a suggestion, anyway. I might also try and grab an education discount before graduating this summer!
I`m wondering, why Adobe should add new features to Photoshop CC in the future. Cloud users have to pay every month, if they want to use Photoshop, no matter, wether Adobe adds new features or not. In the past they made money with new features, because people bought an upgrade. But with the Cloud…no reason for new features any more.
[That strikes me as pretty implausible, but I will say that addressing customers’ needs won’t *only* consist of updates to the apps. For example, helping photographers build stronger businesses means helping them work more efficiently with photos—but it also means helping them find clients, manage a Web presence, publish & sell beautiful work, and so on. Adobe is trying to broaden its view and work on a bigger canvas. I know that we haven’t won everyone’s business in that regard yet, but we’ll keep working to improve the mix over time. –J.]
and look what features!!
rounded EDGES.. WOW!!!! inform the press!!!
[Well, that feature + improved font rendering were the #1 & #2 requests from people who responded to our survey, and leading designers seem pretty happy—but I guess we’re the assholes. –J.]
The price is more than reasonable. It is a steal. The real question is what can you do with it? With Adobe..just about everything. It is the best most versatile, quality software on the market. It is an honor to own. With it you can be as creative and wealthy as you want to be and if you can’t than don’t buy it. It will do as much as you want to work. If you work hard with it you create dreams.
81 dollar a month * 12 here in europe… and then you have nothing.
The part that seems like a real loss for consumers is that one can’t just wait an upgrade cycle (e.g. if money is tight or the improvements aren’t worth the cost). Your only voting option is to lose access completely.
The PS CC updates look like a couple of nice refinements, but even with the 13.1 updates, it doesn’t look like what we used to see for an version upgrade.
Adobe has a near monopoly on high end photo editing. What’s going to be their motivation to deliver significant updates a year or two down the line? Again, are you going to stop paying and lose __complete__ access to Photoshop?
The need for a formidable Photoshop competitor just increased dramatically.
Sad. It doesn’t have to be this way…
It’s obvious from this whole conversation, that no matter whether you are in favour of CC or not, the general feeling is that it’s only the Americans who are getting a “great deal”. Everyone everywhere else is paying a LOT more, even allowing for local taxes.
Since Adobe is by implication making a lot more profit in Europe, it might be worth raising the matter with local governments and with the EU to see if Adobe is paying tax on profits at an acceptable rate, or doing a Google on it. I feel letters to MPs coming on…….
Honestly, I’m terribly disappointed with what Adobe has doing here. It’s a naked money grab at the expense of their customers, and it’s the kind of thing you can only do in a near monopoly position. The fact that Adobe keeps attempting to spin this as a positive thing for users (especially current users), is appalling. Sure, it’s a low entry price, but you get charged that…forever.
Now, if you’re going to be a professional designer, you must pay Adobe monthly. It’s like dealing with the mob. “It sure would be a shame if your tools were to stop working.”
I like Adobe tools and developers like yourself, but this is clearly the businessmen taking advantage of market position to squeeze every dime out of their customers.
I look forward to the price increases next year when suddenly CC Complete is $99/mo (note that they’ve already opened the door with the name), and there’s a CC Design Premium at $59. And so on.
The spin about this being good for us is indeed disturbing, especially because deeply respected people like John Nack have convinced themselves it’s a win-win. It’s not. It’d certainly be a win for Adobe.
Now is the time to vote with our money. If you have a traditional license of CS6, DO NOT opt into the temporary deals offered. This is all designed to get us hooked so we’ll have no option but to keep paying.
If we all sign up for these 1 year subscription deals, we’ll have lost most of our leverage of ensuring we continue to get the improvements we’re paying for. On the other hand if Adobe loses major revenue streams because of users refusing to buy into this new model, then maybe they’ll give us back the choice to pick the license type that’s truly best for us.
John, so you volunteered to be out in front effort, I admire bravery.
You Said, above
If you don’t need or want everything in Complete, you can get Photoshop CC and other new CC apps for $9.99/month. That’s about 35 cents per day.
[Update: These prices are an intro deal for a 12-month commitment.]
My Comment; Adobe Web site only indicates a $19.99/mo option. At $10 per month it is not to bad, at $20 per month the price went up 2X for us single app users, I hope you are correct, is my timing off ??
Assume I have till the end of june to accept this offer.
Do you get hazard pay ?
Hi William, instructions for getting the $9.99 promo here: http://blogs.adobe.com/photoshopdotcom/2013/05/answering-your-questions-about-photoshop-cc.html#JustPhotoshop
The offer is valid until July 31, 2013. Hope that helps.
This cc thing would sound a whole lot more attractive if adobe provide a way to own the software if we no longer want to subscribe …
That’s a great point! That’d solve all my concerns.
I am really afraid of Adobe right now. I like the software, and they’ve made a good effort to make interoperability work. I use Premiere Pro CS6 for editing, and like it.
1: But quite a few times when software upgrades, third party plugins require an update. Will Adobe be making an effort to make SURE that plugins will continue to work after a software update (that might happen in the background) for a reasonable amount of time, so the plugin developer has time to update for the next version…
2: I have to reiterate my and others anger at Adobe predatory pricing outside the US. The differences in price are ludicrous. ESPECIALLY for downloadable applications. I’m reminded of the CEO of Adobe dodging questions about that difference in pricing. http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/adobe-chief-dodges-questions-over-pricing-20130214-2eetr.html
3: I am deeply afraid of the FACT that in order to keep using Adobe software from Creative Cloud, you HAVE to keep paying. As someone above said, it’s like the mob. “It would be a shame if your tools stopped working.” When creative cloud first came out, I seriously looked at it. There was a discount for the first year, then it went to the normal price. Adding it all up and comparing it to my normal upgrade cyle, it wound up more expensive. Surely there’s a balance somewhere where I can pay for a certain amount of time (at least a year perhaps?) and then be able to use the software as I wish, without updates etc.
4: I’m glad there’s a discount for loyal users. But I paid for CS6 Production Premium not so long ago. Stepping into a years contract seems like paying AGAIN for the same software.
Adobe is so confident that customers will see the value of a CC subscription model that it’s giving those who wish to get new features no alternative. That doesn’t suggest confidence, it suggests a lack of confidence.
Look, Adobe has the right to price its products as exorbitantly as it can get away with. But let’s not pretend it’s doing it for the customers’ good. Taking away the option to buy standalone upgrades is good only for Adobe, not for its customers.
A big AMEN, well said!
There are apparent benefits of the CC model, such as frequent updates and access to any and all the Adobe products you require.
However, the downside is the lock-in to a permanent regular payment (monthly, yearly, whatever). Small businesses often have fluctuating fortunes. What is affordable this month may not be affordable next month.
The preceding comment about it being like dealing with the mob is pertinent: “It sure would be a shame if your tools were to stop working.”
In practice one will need to keep a non-CC version of each important Adobe app functional as a fallback in case the subscription cannot be afforded. And perhaps you would need to always keep a backward compatible version of any important work — an additional complexity and overhead.
With the “boxed” model, you could purchase the current upgrade when you could afford it, and if you didn’t have the money, you could safely wait until later. You had the security of having a recent version and knowing that any work you created using that version would remain accessible to you. With CC you don’t have that security since the subscription can be terminated at any time by Adobe if you cannot continue to pay the subscription.
That’s the risk. And it’s a significant risk.
So MANY GREAT COMMENTS, if only John were CEO of Adobe, maybe Adobe would be a kinder, gentler company.
[Heh—but I’d be an infinitely more stressed-out John, so… 😉 –J.]
Another concern that I have not seen mentioned is compatibility. The company I formerly worked for always took time to explore these issues prior to upgrading…and many times these issues were significant. We used PS, InDesign, InCopy, Adobe Acrobat Pro amoung others. I’m not sure I want my software upgraded behind the scene without the options of investigating compatibility issues.
[I don’t believe there’s any *requirement* that one apply the updates that come down the pike. As before, you can roll out updates at your discretion, if and when you’re ready. –J.]
Well, then how You can interpret this piece of CC Agreement:
“11.4 The Software may automatically download and install updates from Adobe. These updates are designed to improve, enhance and further develop the Services and may take the form of bug fixes, enhanced functions, new Software modules, and completely new versions. You agree to receive such updates (and permit Adobe to deliver these to you with or without your knowledge) as part of your use of the Services.”
…without your knowledge. Scary !
“Good News – No More Waiting
We simply can’t sit back when the world is changing so rapidly. Waiting 18 to 24 months to catch up isn’t acceptable for any of our customers. We need to respond quickly to meet your evolving needs and to do so, we have to break from the old way of doing things.”
Agreed that waiting 18-24 months might not be the best for many people. But arguing that this necessitates a subscription model doesn’t hold. Just offer more frequent updates and price according to how much is added (e.g. 13.1 could have been done this way). Every now and then have a full version update so people who don’t need, or can’t afford, as frequent updates can get up to speed.
I’ve been an Adobe customer since 1989- 24 years- and you just lost me as a customer moving forward. This will not be an easy transition for me- I work in the creative industry and it will be extremely difficult to move away from this ecosystem and way of working, precisely because the rest of the industry is right there with me. I’m not actually convinced it can be done– but I will try.
Adobe has been on the path of misunderstanding its customers for many years, and it all just came to a head today.
Rover – my situation is the same. It’s going to be really difficult, but I am already investigating the alternatives. Unless Adobe relent and abandon their CC only approach, this is the end of the line, after nearly 20 years of using Adobe products professionally – and even writing textbooks teaching their use. It’s astonishing that this has happened. We could see it coming, but just didn’t believe that Adobe could be stupid enough to go through with it. This is a very bad development, and it comes at a bad time for many people, but we will not be browbeaten into taking the subscription route.
It’s not about what we can aford to buy…it’s about the method of use. I paid cash for the last automobile I purchased…I could have called a cab every time I wanted to go somewhere. I don’t wish to have a subcription to the CC. I want to license the software the same way I have in the past.
I’m not sure why I even bother to post about this anymore. This will be the last time.
$50, folks. Fifty frikkin dollars. Were I an amateur designer, illustrator, web developer, motion graphics artist, etc. I could find a job that would allow me to earn well over $50 for a month’s worth of work. Were I someone who was not a professional and who simply wanted to have Photoshop or Dreamweaver or (fill in the blank) to play with- $50 a month would be very little money to drop on a “hobby”.
What exactly ARE your expectations? Should the CS cost $20 a month? Most of you spend more of that on a dinner out or on coffee per week. Do you have the slightest clue of the resources that go into creating only ONE piece of the software in the CC?
If you can only complain about the CC subscription fee then by all means go find an alternative. Because if you ARE a professional (and let me define that as: someone who makes their living using the tools) and you are whining about the $50 subscription fee then please do the world a favor and find another line of work.
Greg, I expect that genuinely decent people possessed of at least some value other than greed would not suddenly impose a costly “pay for all our products from now on or go without them” policy on a 15-year customer.
I can afford the extra cost, yes. Yay for me, right? I guess that means I’m a real professional? Perhaps even entitled to comment, whether or not my opinion is the same as yours?
I can also afford to fix my car if someone comes along and smashes it with a hammer while I’m inside the grocery store. That doesn’t mean I feel it’s necessary for this to happen, let alone something I should be pleased with. Or that it’s something I can afford easily, if it happens on an ongoing basis in perpetuity.
What are you going to do if new features you need aren’t getting added in the future or the price goes to $100/month?
This would be like a presidential candidate asking people to vote them in for not just one term but to make it a life-long appointment. If they get elected for life, what if they don’t live up to their promises? One would have no alternative but to leave the country.
With the current licensing system we have the equivalent of choosing to reelect Photoshop whenever a new upgrade is available for purchase. This is a right many of us are reluctant to give away.
How about this then, Greg. Apple charges you $50/month for using OS X. Microsoft charges $50/month for using Excel, Powerpoint, Word. Google, Twitter, Facebook, Amazon, eBay, Reddit, Firefox, Chrome, Cyberduck, Addblocker, Flash, Skype, Angry Birds all $50 per month.
It takes a lot of time and energy and money to develop and maintain these. Aren’t they worth it? As a professional, surely you can come up with the money.
Everybody who brings the “if you can’t make enough money out of your Business to afford CC” argument and blends it with the connotation “then you might consider to change something else in you business model” gets it completely wrong.
Please note that noone here publically doubts the intelligence or talent of people using CC.
Probably everybody expressing his/her frustration in comments could afford CC.
Yes. there are clearly drastic differences in international pricing, whatever Adobe Employees say. So what might seem a steal for Americals isn’t as affordable anywhere else.
But also this unjustice isn’t the main argument most people have here. They,including me don’t accept the whole Software rental model for reasons which have been expressed numerous times as well.
There’s no need to explain CC further, there is no convincing possible. Even making CC dirt cheap could not make those who dislike the concept of software renting fundamentally join the bandwagon.
Some of us have seen what subscription models may make out of a Company and out of fantastic software, one only has to look at how Autodesk has f**ed up things.
Cool if CC works for you. It would just be kind to accept deviating points of view expressed by fellow professionals.
I’m someone who makes their living using the tools, but due to repetitive strain injuries I can’t work full time and thus I have very limited financial resources (and no, I haven’t been able to find other work because it’s really hard to find work that you can do without using your hands at all). The $87 a month cost of CC in Sweden is more than I spend on food each month. $1040 a year is a substantial amount of money for me.
John, this is a bad, bad deal for me.
This will not save me money. Based on my purchases of Adobe products since 2007, Creative Cloud pricing will cost me at least an extra $400 per year.
Year after year after year.
I don’t need more programs; had I needed them I would have bought them. I don’t need more versions; had I needed them I would have bought them.
Announcing “from now on, you’ll pay for every one of them anyway, or forego access to all future releases from our company” is simply punching me in the face.
You can kid yourself otherwise if it makes you feel better; you can belittle me for “not getting it” like Scott Morris has done; but this is simply taking money away from me because you’re big and I’m small. That’s all.
VERY WELL SAID – BRAVO! I HOPE MR. NARAYEN IS LISTENING!
MR. NARAYEN is on a yacht somewhere warm. He does not here you.
In what universe is 49.99 USD equivalent to 46.88 GBP? Not this one!!!
It’s a major disincentive to the UK user base to be offered such a bewilderingly crap exchange rate. That’s roughly 45% more expensive for UK users.
The fundamental problem with this new model is that not everyone believes in always being on the latest version.
I have been buying the Master collection (and what ever it was called before than) as far back as I can remember. I did so because I believed I should pay money for tools I make a living with.
That said I would only ever upgrade every full point version as the .5 versions rarely added anything useful to my workflow.
This worked out well financially. When Creative Cloud was released I did the maths and found I would actually save about $500 a year if I’d stick with buying the products outright.
I can only assume that Adobe did the similar calculations for it’s customer base and realised it could extract more money buy moving to a subscription model.
Once Flash CS is dead or fully replaced by HTML5 (this will probably happen in about 3 to 4 years) and an alternative to Photoshop is available (I am sure someone is thinking about that right now) I’ll be gone forever.
after some further thinking I believe there is an another issue. CS 6 for most users I presume is good enough. A bit like MS Office was good enough around 2010.
So how do you get people to upgrade if they don’t see a point? That’s right you force them into a subscription model. What’s even better about that model is they will pay you for all eternity to use your software.
My wild guess would be that some smart soul other will quickly come up with a way that allows you to continue to use your Adobe Subscription products even after your subscription is expired.
Sad thing about that is that we will be back in the situation where I have to explain to clients that those tools I bought were expensive and for that reason alone my basic pricing structure has to be at a certain level.
For someone like me and many of my photography friends who only use Photoshop and Lightroom the last upgrades of these programs cost us about $200.00. We don’t meet the rest of the Creative Cloud products. How can we just get what we need without having to pay for something we don’t need?
Hi Jerry, see this FAQ topic: http://blogs.adobe.com/photoshopdotcom/2013/05/answering-your-questions-about-photoshop-cc.html#JustPhotoshopAndLightroom
We’ve heard there’s a lot of interest in a photographer’s bundle or photography cloud solution and we’re actively exploring offerings we can potentially create for you. We welcome your feedback around what you would like to see that fits your workflow needs.
Thanks for that update. I don’t mind the subscription but it shouldn’t cost more than what we paid for the usual upgrade of the perpetual license product. It looks like the single app selection for Photoshop CC will cost $19.99 after the first year which is almost $240/yr. I paid less than that for the CS6 upgrade and it was on somewhere around an 18 months cycle. What I am saying is what others are saying – Don’t penalize us for being loyal customers!
I see a real BIGH problem here with ANY 3rd party software.
Boxed sets – published versions = since these only happen every so often, 3rd party add-ons can adjust and make their problem work. In between are generally only minor tweeks that in most cases don’t ‘harm’ those 3rd party add-ons.
CC – it is expected this is an on-going rolling upgrade, continuous. This will in general drive 3rd party add-on crazy because the changing cloud software will be a ‘moving target’ – unless Adobe adheres to only major upgrades on a rather extended schedule [same as for boxed software is now updated]
any other thoughts on this situation [potential problem*]
*the “problem” is we pay extra for those 3rd party add-ons….not wanting to see that blow up at any moments notice.
WARNING – once Adobe makes that rolling upgrade, and your add-on dies…there is ‘no going back.’
I hate the “bait” and sneakery of offers that last only for the first year, and then the cost goes up -as much twice as much- as is the case of the $9.95 Vs. $19.95, for the single Photoshop “subscription”. While I agree that perhaps I would reluctantly pay the $9.95/month forever (!), twice that much is $478/2 years, or $360/18 months, which is the usual refresh cycle. And that is excessive, when, until now, we could get a version upgrade for $199, or less, which is less than half as much.
Teaser rates that shoot up once they have a pipeline into your bank account up and running…? Hey, just like the at&t and the cable company.
Which, come to think of it, is what Adobe has just turned itself into.
That’s the killer for me as well. Yes, the initial barrier to entry is now lower for new and occasional users, but prices have shot through the roof for most everybody.
Like most professionals, I qualify for an association discount. So my Photoshop upgrades have been $169 every 18-24 months.
Now, if I want to have a current version of Photoshop, I have to pay a hair shy of $240 a year. And my annualized maintenance costs haven’t only shot up 100%+, but suddenly I also must keep paying the piper even if new features are of no interest or use to me or Photoshop takes a turn I don’t care for. Because as soon as I quit paying, hey, I’ve got nothing.
I don’t begrudge Adobe a desire for more steady revenue stream, or even a feeble attempt to combat piracy, but don’t pee on my shoes and tell me it’s raining savings. There is no universe in which you’re coming out ahead if you’re currently using a 1-2 individual applications or one of the smaller Creative Suite editions.
Don’t get me wrong—Creative Cloud has some great features. There are applications in the suite I need once or twice a year, and it’s fantastic that I’m now able to rent them inexpensively as needed. But this move isn’t saving me any money on the applications I use frequently, no matter how many customer relations people Adobe tasks with telling me otherwise.
For me it just comes down to the fact that it’s leased. You stop paying and your proprietary files are useless.
That special pricing doesn’t seem to apply here in France. Adobe really should regularize its pricing globally to avoid coming off as arrogant. Fairness to non-Americans would be a nice new “feature”.
I don’t like the idea to rent software and paying forever. I don’t care if it costs more to have a boxed full retail standalone NON-CLOUD version. But stay away with this ugly cloud based software-to-rent shit! If I pay for something I own it, period.
WOW, I am stunned in the saddest way possible…
Through this construction, my (annual) software needs will become 1.5 to 3 times as expensive as the were since I started using Creative Suite… while customers are already squeezing every last euro from us designers…
There used to be certainty with using Adobe software:
– It worked
– It was focussed on a certain task (photo-editing, vector-illustration, et cetera)
– one version could be used until you bought a new computer
– and even though the products weren’t cheap, they would get the job done.
These days – after the acquisition of Macromedia – I miss the focus that the apps used to have. Now there are all kinds of tools that promote coöperation and sharing…
…and completely get in the way of getting things done in the best possible software environment.
(At least, that’s what it comes down to for me and a number of colleagues).
Adobe, are you sure that you are listening to your customers and not to your marketingdepartment?
PS: Terminate the contract with whoever designed the new application logo’s!
A few years ago I was sitting in a Starbucks in Vegas with a Adobe exec. At that time he told me that corporate was looking at PS as a limited market for pro use mainly. This is quite true: how big is the market? Not that big- the return development cost was slimming down. With CC and $20 a month the market becomes huge. At $1000 a pop it is not. We can all see that and acknowledge that too. I don’t think Adobe wants us to quit buying PS. It wants a new bigger market- like the new “pro” who bought his camera at Walmart and Aunt June says he is a real professional photographer and designer.
I was at a seminar a while ago and the guy asked for a show of hands- how many have been in the biz over 20 years, 10 years, 5 years, 1 year. Well 90% of the hands were in the biz between 1 and 5 years. That is the new market.
Oh yes, also rented house, car, furniture and maybe spouse?
My post on another forum:
First, I don’t have a problem with Creative Cloud. If it best suits your need, then all the better. The problem is that it doesn’t suit my needs. Professionally, I use Indesign, Photoshop, Illustrator and a bit of Acrobat. As a hobby, Lightroom. Given the nature of the work I do, I don’t need all the applications that come with CC, so why should I pay for software I’ll never use?
• You have access to the full set of Adobe’s creative tools, with frequent updates
(I don’t need it.)
• Your assets, settings, styles, colors, and fonts are synced and available across your desktop and mobile devices.
(I don’t need it. Who does Indesign on a tablet?)
• You are connected to the people you collaborate with and the people who inspire you.
(I don’t need it. I get inspired *at* the office, and I can connect with them via email. And I don’t take my work on the Appalachian Trail.)
• You are able to share your work and get feedback from the community throughout the creative process
(I don’t need it. I do that at the office.)
• You can broaden your skills through access to the best training from the best teachers
Furthermore, the software is huge by itself. For myself, each program is reaching the law of diminishing returns in that I’m probably only using 40% of what’s packed into each. (Why is there video editing in Photoshop?) With CS6 I have far more gewgaws than I’ll ever use. So why would I want to perpetually upgrade? I used CS4 for five years and it worked (and continues to work) just fine.
And as someone on a tight budget, upgrading once every five years is reasonable. But paying $50 per month for things I don’t want or need is out of the question.
I love Adobe products and I can see where there is financial logic in their Excel spreadsheets (I can’t wait for Microsoft to start billing Adobe for Excel.). But I want more choices, not fewer. And for me, that means streamlined software that I buy when *I* want to buy it.
Adobe, if you are reading this, remember Netflix.
What you said, “I don’t need it.” If Verizon suddenly discontinued pre-paid plans and declared that from now on, I must sign on for a monthly plan which will cost 3x as much as what I’ve been paying… throwing in a free pony ride would not make the prospect any more appealing to me.
So, Adobe finally became Quark. Congratulations.
And for the record: love the engineering, hate the marketing.
Sadly I’ve been reaching the same conclusion. This development would have been an exciting opportunity for Macromedia… how convenient that they’re no longer around.
I was thinking the exact same thing. I was happy to see Quark go down, because I preferred Adobe tools, and Quark was so arrogant and greedy, but I was worried about what would happen when Adobe consolidated the market to itself.
And now my fears are realized.
The problem with intro discounted pricing is some of us look pass next Fridays beer…we actually look a year or two or five years out, in which case CC pricing does not look good for ME.
Adobe keeps catching me off guard, and I have now lost trust.
Adobe has been “owning” the market for a very long time now. This seems like a step to loot the wallets of their clients. Guess there will be one good thing coming out of this; plenty of opportunity for compatition to come up with an alternative. PS CS6 is good enough to keep using for quite some time.
BTW, while you can order Photoshop CC now, you won’t actually be able to download it until June 17th. The invoice appears to be effective immediately, even though it will be over a month before you actually get anything. A free $10 tip for Adobe from those of us who didn’t read the fine print?
Like many others, I detest the requirement that I must pay monthly to continue using the software. Unfortunately, not only is there no competition, but I can use some of the features in CC, so I have no choice but to rent the software. I will at least change saves to use TIFF instead of PSD so that should I even end up in a situation where I cannot continue my monthly fees I’ll at least be able to open my files with something else. Unlike some others, I am not convinced the economy will always be good, business will always be sufficient to cover my costs, and Adobe will never, ever raise their monthly fee excessively high, and I will never grow old… 🙂
I wasted a lot of time on Adobe chat this afternoon and echo poster Rithwic’s lament! Below is the transcript of my chat (too bad the responses weren’t timestamped–waited up to 5 min. between each one and had clearly stated my issue before beginning the chat):
Basavakumar : As I understand that you are unable to use Photoshop application and it is showing up to date in the Adobe application manager, am I correct?
William McDavid: No, I can use Photoshop CS6, but I upgraded to Photoshop CC last night and am not seeing a CC version of Photoshop that I can download.
Basavakumar : Thank you for confirming.
Basavakumar : I will be glad to check and help you with this issue.
William McDavid: Thank you.
Basavakumar : Sorry for the wait. Please do stay online.
William McDavid: Ok, I’m here.
Basavakumar : Thank you for being online.
Basavakumar : Still Photoshop CC not released.
Basavakumar : So once the product will release then the information will updated in the Adobe Website.
William McDavid: But, isn’t there a current cloud version that I’m available to use? If this isn’t yet available I would like Adobe to extend my one year CC license from the actual release date of the product instead of May 6, 2013 when I purchased the Creative Cloud license…
William McDavid: for a product that I don’t yet have access to!
William McDavid: Hello???
William McDavid: Basavakumar, where are you???
There has already been a cloud update for Photoshop CS6, so you’d still be getting some new features by subscribing to Creative Cloud.
(Not saying it isn’t a valid request… I understand why you’d want to delay the start of your subscription)
Thanks, David. That’s what I thought, and would be happy to explore the new features of the CS6 version of PS while awaiting the June 17th PS CC version.
I haven’t had time today to use the phone but will call Adobe tonight or tomorrow for access to the Creative Cloud version of CS6. I appreciate your taking the time to reply. William
The problem is not the Cloud. The problem , as I see it, is the pricing. Adobe will greatly benefit from moving to a continuously upgraded Cloud service. And I believe the users will as well. But the price of Cloud access is much more than one would pay for a perpetual license, even if the user upgraded every 18 months. For example, the CS6 web and Design Suite is $1900. And upgrades run about $375 every 18 months. So in 10 years as professional user, who keeps up to date with each version, would spend about $3800. Compare that to a 10-year Cloud license of $6000. I don’t know who placed the price-point, but I can imagine it hurts “mid-range’ user the most. Someone who uses maybe 3 or 4 Adobe apps.
It’s hurting people like me too–the home hobbyist and advanced amateur photographer with one license. With the discount will pay double the upgrade price in two years, then if the $20/month price holds up will pay triple the price after that!
It’ll be nice to have upgrades though, not having to wait 2 years for new features. I use CS6 daily and will never go back to Paint Shop Pro; that software “once known as the poor man’s PS”, but now in Corel’s hands is a buggy mess.
Change can be difficult for some, but change can be good too.
It’s also taking away CHOICE from customers by FORCING customers to make monthly cloud payments if they want to use the Adobe products.
It’s almost like Adobe is saying: “hey customers, we don’t care if you have a choice or not. You will do as we tell you!. In our heads we think we are the best and we have you trapped. So there, if you want to use our products you must pay month after month after months. If you don’t, screw you, we will cut you off and you won’t have access to your files.”
Who wants to do business with a company like that? It’s time to fire Adobe and move on with other software.
It is hurting the “middle class” Adobe users. Which I believe is the majority. I use PS, AI, Acrobat and once in a while InD. (of course Bride and ACR) People like me are totally scr#*ed by this new CC pricing model. I am completely behind the Cloud move. I believe it will be good for users and Adobe. But there has to be some middle ground between “Single App” pricing and Master Suite pricing.
Come up with an attractive option for both Photoshop and Lightroom and/or a way to keep the software after termination and I could be interested. Otherwise I’m not and won’t be suckered into any deals. I might add that I’ve been an Adobe customer since Photoshop 2.5.
BTW, your Julieanne Kost video won’t play on my Macbook Pro Retina … probably because I decided a year ago not to install Flash on this machine.
Stephen, from what I read last night believe LR will still be available for purchase via retail box or download. It’s only PS and the flagship suite that are cloud-based.
That is until Adobe decides it’s too hard to keep two code bases and roll you all into LightRoom CC. Don’t think it can happen? Still waiting for CS7 that was promised last year? Yeah, keep waiting.
I’m aware that I can continue to buy separate LR upgrades (for the foreseeable future) but not interested in paying $600 p.a. for the privilege (even if I can currently afford it). Since there’s more and more overlap with Photoshop it makes sense to bundle the two. Any bundle price must however factor in my loss of rights to use the software after termination of the subscription.
I also have been using Photoshop for the past more than 20 years, since version 3, and have been religiously upgrading at every refresh cycle. No more. If they had offered even a $15/month bundle for Photoshop+Lightroom, I probably would go for it. But definitely not at current prices for a single product. Two years from now, I´ll start looking at alternatives.
It’s not so much the cost for me, it’s the fact that if you stop paying, all your files are useless.
[What if we found a way to ensure that you could always open and use your files no matter what? –J.]
[What if we found a way to ensure that you could always open and use your files no matter what? –J.]
John, with the greatest respect, this shouldn’t be a “what if…?” in the first place. This should have been part of the Creative Cloud deal back when the CS6 apps were rolled out. How many more people might have signed up for Creative Cloud in the last 12 months if they’d had the reassurance that they won’t be locked out of their own documents?
[Yes, we should have gotten this squared away sooner, and I’m sorry we didn’t. We’re working on it. Please stay tuned. –J.]
Exactly. What if we hadn’t convinced ourselves that self-destruct-o-ware was a clever innovation rather than a return of DivX? i.e., the original DivX concocted by Circuit City, which worked out so well for them after all?
My greatest concern is the future. In five years where are we going to be at with this subscription service? The potential for making the Creative Suite completely unobtainable for individuals is very likely.
While the current price structure seems fair for the complete suite I can foresee a future where the whole suite is broken up again like it was previously, but priced the same. You want to do design/print? 50 bucks. Video? 50 bucks, Web development – 50 bucks a month. If you want them all pay $150 a month. Of course the costs will be quantified by new “mind blowing professional features” and by providing more “focused” tools… Sorry for the sarcasm.
Like a large Canadian cable vision provider that I “subscribe” to over the last 10 years once the flood gates of – “more features = more pay” there has been a never ending monthly increase of my bill – “features” added without my consent or choice other than to pay or leave the service. Why would I believe Adobe to be any different once the subscription model is firmly in place?
I do have a lot admiration for what Adobe has done with their software and its current state of integration, but the subscription vs. licence aspect of their marketing model still needs to be addressed.
There needs to be an option for a perpetual licence for your current version of software. So that those who choose not to pay a monthly fee can continue to work ( and of course miss out on the new features that the Creative Cloud can provide.)
I’m a Creative Cloud member at work, at home and an Adobe software user for over a decade.
Wayne, join the rest of us. Get yourself a perpetual copy of CS6 and let them know you won’t be a part of this mess.
Unfortunately getting a CS6 version now means you buy the complete product, the upgrades are no longer available, because of course they were only available through the Adobe store.
I have been having a cash poor year so I put off my Photoshop CS6 Extended upgrade – for apparently too long now. Plus I really needed them to address the degraded crop tool before I moved to it!
Upgrades are still available through telesales. Adobe values you, just not enough to let you buy instantly and painlessly online.
(This is another one of those instances where I’d swear Macromedia actually acquired Adobe, not the other way around.)
It’s been a long ride for me, since v2.5 of Photoshop, but it looks like a couple of years of coasting with CS6, and then I will be at a crossroads. What an amazing amount of trust and user base capital Adobe has turned their back on with this move. I find it very disheartening to contemplate, and as much as there have been hints at something like this for some time, I never imagined the accountants and marketing minds would make such a drastic and insulting move toward their loyal customer base as the one they just announced.
You do what you have to do, John, and us users will do the same, by voting with our wallets.
I really feel for all the creative people that work in the trenches at Adobe. This is clearly a problem created at the top. As someone else put it – “Love the engineering, hate the marketing.” John is just brave enough to bare it here on his blog.
I’m another person that (using a spreadsheet) did an analysis of how much I spend on the Adobe products upfront versus the subscription model. Sure the very first upfront payment to own the product is greater, but then this cost is written down over the years and works out to be more cost effective for my business. Most of the time there are very few new features that I need to do billable work. I also have to factor in the time I will spend learning the new features. I only upgrade when there is a very compelling reason.
There are some much younger and fresher software producers than Adobe that have already started to shake up the system, on both a product innovation and cost basis. Ableton is a good example in the music production field (at least when they first released Live), Panic in web development: small and nimble, not weighed down by 25 years of kludge, shareholders, old fogey programs that only innovate incrementally in the hope of users upgrading.
With the myriad of technologies available, many open source, and various other products on the market (corel, inkscape, gimp, remember Quark? etc.) all we need is for someone visionary to bring some of these forces together and offer an alternative to Adobe. I for one would freely put in plenty of my own money in a crowdfunding scenario, to get it off the ground: in return for a reduced cost of ownership, or some kind of share ownership model.
The new CC subscription model is now a very good incentive for the right person to come along and make this all happen: I wouldn’t really want Apple involved but they do have the coin to do it. Some competition would benefit us all.
Speaking of Apple, Aperture’s price drop when it moved to the App Store ($300 to $80) put pressure on Lightroom to halve its cost. It may also be a factor in why we’ll still be able to own Lightroom.
The future may lie more in specialized apps. For instance, an app that’s the equivalent of adaptive wide angle filter. Another for compositing multi-viewpoint panoramas.
It’d be hard to replicate all of PS’s functionality, but maybe the specialized app model is better. One of the best things about UNIX is how separate, specialized commands can be combined in very powerful ways.
Anyone want to help make an open standard for interconnecting photo editing apps (e.g. to allow for reprocessing recipes for non-destructive editing)?
Gee. A whole year. After I’ve paid for over a decade of upgrades. As long as I commit to a year, and then I’m paying full price every month after that. Thanks guys, you’re swell. You really shouldn’t have.
What is with those customers who purchased a Creative Suite CS6 which contains Acrobat Pro X. I need Acrobat for business and there is NO-Acrobat INTEGRATION for Microsoft Office 2013 for the Acrobat Version that was part of the CS6 CS. I’ve been waiting for the coming CS 6.5 and now you are telling me there is NO F…IN WAY to update anymore the ultra expensive I’ve bought. Let me tell you that I’m completely pissed of about this nasty turn. That’s almost FRAUD. So the only choice I have to get the latest Adobe Acrobat Pro XI is to BUY THE SHIT AGAIN ? Full retail price?
Are you kidding? I found so many websites with people being upset about this. If the cloud is so cool, why do you have to force all customers to join it. It’s simply, greed because Adobe can press the maximum money out of everybody.
I’m a retired guy. With the NAPP discounts upgrading ever couple of years wasn’t bad. I teach baby boomers (have to be over 50) photography at the local U. I used to show them Photoshop – never again. As hobbyists those grandmothers will never buy it now. I’ve had Photoshop since 2 or 3, and now am on CS6. CS6 will have be to good enough as I’ll never be able to upgrade again. I actually have a tear in my eye as I write this. Is Adobe shortsighted to think of their customer base as only composed of professional users who can pass off costs to their customers.
If I were Nikon and Canon I would worry that my markets of cameras to non-professional users suddenly may shrink due to a cost barrier in photo development software. I’d be want to start a photo development camera industry software company to make the software to put in free with my cameras.
Adobe, you shouldn’t make your customers cry.
And Scott Kelby, does it make any sense for me to continue NAPP dues as I’m never going to need training on upgrades I’m never going to get?
Scott Kelby is an Adobe tool. His FAQ on his website was just a soul-less talking points memo from Adobe. I don’t blame him, he shouldn’t piss off the mothership.
I can’t believe that I read all of these comments. There seems to be a theme here, Adobe really didn’t consult their customer base and decided in a boardroom somewhere that subscription services is all they will offer. It is heavy handed and certainly arrogant. I have been used Photoshop and Illustrator for decades and upgraded every time. I went to the creative suite when they started that whole process and I am rewarded with a discount (not sure how much yet because I haven’t seen the 13th month pricing) for one year. Let me drop to my knees and thank you so humbly. Perhaps this is Adobe’s way of hindering all of the pirating though I am sure someone will figure out how to publish a working version. I would have preferred Adobe make an example of some that have pirated their software.
At this point I am with many here, I will continue to use CS6 and search for viable alternatives. The competition is no doubt watching all of the internet chatter about this move and will jump on it and I hope they do.
AMEN! Well Said.
Yes. Absolutely. Especially if the “promotional price” is good for one year only, and then we’re stuck with a large price hike.
There is both commercial and open source competition. And the open source stuff is getting better fast.
If piracy is Adobe’s problem, then punishing its loyal customers is not the answer. If long term revenue stability is the issue, then also you’re shooting yourself in the foot. Especially the “one app or everything” model is so inflexible (and expensive) that it betrays the lack of common sense by whomever made the decision.
Plus you offer no real solution for the perpetual lock-in. If I was using Photoshop only, for instance – I already paid for it and I can use if forever. I paid $200/year for upgrades (some of us would skip a year and only paid $100/year or so). Now, for Photoshop only you want to charge $240/year while not giving a perpetual license. So you give much less than half the value for a higher price.
Effectively, Adobe more than doubled the price of the product. Does anybody there understand that a perpetual license is much more valuable than a temporary license? So how come the temporary one costs more than the perpetual one?
And for us, long time users, the claim about the up-front entry price is hogwash. That money is already water under the bridge. We’ve been feeding Adobe for 20 years loyally, and what we get in return is a “discount” that lasts one year only. That’s simply a bad joke. The bottom line is that our loyalty is paid back with extortion.
Adobe must be either desperate or it forgot who it it is. Either way, it’s bad news.
We should all look for alternatives now, as it is pretty clear that you turned against your customers. Just like Apple. I can’t express my level of disappointment sufficiently. The one brand that I could find no flaw with, turned out to be as bad as the rest of them. It’s a real shame.
What bothers me the most is that Adobe has moved to a model that greatly benefits them, and in theory could benefit users (at least those users who do not have some intractable anti-rental philosophy) So one would assume changing their product line-up model to one that secures predictable profits, Adobe would price it accordingly. But what we users see is an INCREASE in price! Most hard hit are the “mid-tier” users of 3 or 4 apps. Very odd move. Adobe in no way lookss good in this change.
I think one thing that Adobe doesn’t realize (and that many people intuit) is that it’s NOT for us to just give Adobe money in the hopes that their products and services are good. It’s for Adobe to *first prove* that their products and services are good and hope that we agree and will pay them. Their marketing is backwards.
I have been reading these comments and thinking about this for a couple of days now. What makes “Creative Cloud only” an unacceptable option for me is becoming locked into a perpetual “Adobe tax”. If I stop paying the tax, I lose access to the work I have created using the Adobe tools (which is my “property”, not Adobe’s).
This is the BIG sticking point. I don’t mind paying a fair price for tools, but I don’t want a perpetual tax (subscription fee).
For now I have no alternative but to keep using the current non-CC versions of Adobe tools, for which I have always paid the upgrade fees and which are more than capable enough for my requirements.
But I need to start thinking about an exit strategy, not for today, but for when the existing tools become un-workable. I’ll be looking for opportunities to become less dependent rather than more dependent on Adobe tools. This is a change of attitude towards Adobe.
Maybe this development will kindle a serious “alternatives to the Adobe monopoly” movement?
“Choose Always from the Maximize PSD File Compatibility menu. This saves a composite (flattened) image along with the layers of your document.”
Wouldn’t help with tweaking adjustment layers, smart filters, layer arrangements, etc., but at least this wouldn’t require always saving TIFF copies.
Adobe could quell most of the subscription issues if they let us keep using the release version we were at if we for some reason let the subscription expire. They’d have a more regular revenue stream. Improvement accountability would continue to benefit all and users wouldn’t have to worry about their work being held hostage.
This was (is?) how Autodesk handled Maya subscriptions
Paul, you express my feelings exactly. Except that I am also scandalized to be asked to pay up more than twice as much as we have to pay at each version refresh cycle today to stay up-to-date with Photoshop alone, for those of us who don´t need the whole “suite”.
Paul, you express my feelings exactly too. In addition, I no longer feel that Adobe can be trusted, or that they would keep any “promises” about pricing or product options.
In the UK, we used to talk of buying on the “never never” when making hire purchase agreements. This seems a perfect description for the CC agreement – you will never never stop paying Adobe, every single month, unless you want to lose your work and your tools. At least with most hire purchase you eventually stop paying and own the purchased goods – but not with Adobe’s bright new plan …
As I create a lot of original work, I have no choice but to look for an exit strategy as of now, and I have started doing this. I cannot risk keeping my work in file formats for which I have to keep paying the “Adobe tax” as you so aptly put it, nor can I risk losing access to the tools on which my work depends, if future Adobe price hikes or ridiculous packages of products make it impossible for me to keep paying in bad months or bad years. (As I’m in the UK I’m already paying the extra Adobe European tax.)
I also agree very strongly with everyone who has commented on the incredible lack of provision for the many users using 3 or 4 apps, such as the CS Design suite. Adobe simply don’t seem to realise that it’s very bad marketing to make it look as though you are paying for many apps you neither need nor want, in order to get the 3 or 4 you do want. It’s not sufficient to make the price for the whole collection reasonable – for those who do want all of the apps. It remains that all those of us who only use a few feel ripped off when we have to pay the same.
But that’s a minor point in some ways, as the subscription model just isn’t acceptable.
I think Adobe realises that this is a hard pill to swallow, hence the reduced pricing for the first year for those upgrading from previous Creative Suites. I would put the case that they should swallow their pride (and some short-term profit) and make those prices the default for everyone – AND slash the price differentials between the USA and the rest of the world.
Adobe should change their software so that when it’s used outside of a subscription, it will only allow opening, printing and exporting to other formats. That would ensure that you could still access your documents and make use of them. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
Does this mean I have to start converting all my .dng files to tiffs. I will one day, hopefully, be a very old lady who simply wants to show off her family photos. I just moved all my .dngs from Bridge to Lightroom. Should I jump to Aperture?
[No, the whole point of DNG is that it’s an open standard, not tied to any app. If you’re concerned about maintaining your edits without using Adobe software, you can choose “Metadata->Update DNG Preview & Metadata.” That stuffs a rendered JPEG of the image into the DNG package. But you shouldn’t have to go through this at all, really: we need to find a way for people to keep accessing their intellectual property (images, edits, etc.) regardless of whether they continue to subscribe. We’re working on it. –J.]
“[…But you shouldn’t have to go through this at all, really: we need to find a way for people to keep accessing their intellectual property (images, edits, etc.) regardless of whether they continue to subscribe. We’re working on it. –J.]”
So… we can also expect open formats for .indd, .ai, .psd, .aep, etc, to allow us to have continued access to our intellectual property if we opt out of Adobe’s perpetual payment plan?
“But you shouldn’t have to go through this at all, really: we need to find a way for people to keep accessing their intellectual property (images, edits, etc.) regardless of whether they continue to subscribe. We’re working on it. –J.]”
I guess I’ll state the obvious: The best way is to give us back the perpetual license. Why scramble to invent some half-assed file reader which isn’t going to give us what we REALLY want?
I am still wondering how Adobe can justify the 60% price increase in Europe.
In Australia they quickly dropped the price to match the US one after the government started an inquiry, my hopes are up but I don’t thing that the UE is concerned by such things.
At the current price my guess is a lot a agency and freelances will stay with the CS6 as long as they can. Most of them where already behind anyway.
As a freelance, until now I was used to upgrade every 4 years. A new CS version was released every 2 years and if you upgraded right after the announcement you ‘jumped’ a version. Final cost for a CS design standard upgrade less then 800 $ about 200 $ a year.
From 200 $ to 960 $ a year, it is a steep jump !
ps: Adobe France tried to justify the price with the translations (hello Quebec), then with the costs of marketing in Europe and finally with the phone support !
Here in the UK we only get a marginally better deal than you guys – and there isn’t nearly as much localisation required!
I mentioned this in another comment, but it’s worth repeating – with the move away from physical media and packaging, Adobe really needs to either justify why it is charging its international markets so much more, or bring down their pricing structure to more accurately reflect both the costs of translation and support.
But you shouldn’t have to go through this at all, really: we need to find a way for people to keep accessing their intellectual property (images, edits, etc.) regardless of whether they continue to subscribe. We’re working on it. –J
Adobe doesn’t need to invent a new solution for this. The pre-Creative Cloud system already did this. Just reinstate that option.
[Let’s assume that doesn’t happen & think creatively about other approaches. –J.]
[Let’s assume that doesn’t happen & think creatively about other approaches. –J.]
John, saying “Let’s assume that doesn’t happen” is a serious statement — that there’s no going back on this by Adobe. Wow.
This change to subscription only fundamentally changes the relationship between Adobe and its customers. It shifts control of the relationship from the customer (who chooses if and when to pay money to Adobe) to Adobe (who chooses if and when the customer can use their tools).
But then maybe this change will have hidden benefits by creating an opening for competition? There is nothing that can replace the key Adobe apps today, but that doesn’t mean there cannot be something that’s good enough in a couple of years. There are some promising candidates from small, nimble software companies.
This is the cycle of the software business isn’t it. Remember when Adobe was the young upstart, the David challenging the Goliath of the entrenched monopolistic publishing/typesetting industry? Now Adobe has become the new Goliath. The cycle will repeat.
Just the start -> Pixelmator – $14.99
Pixelmator is great! I have done many pro jobs with it.
Also, most people that use Photoshop, only use about 20% of the features. It’s way over rated. You are always paying for more than you need.
I ran all the numbers and the subscription model increases my small companies’ software costs by 55% over three years. This model penalizes long-term users with higher costs, indefinitely. This model places all control in a multi-billion dollar company instead of the consumer who votes with his dollars by deciding whether or not the new features are innovative enough to upgrade. Adobe can decide to raise prices at any time after your signed contract period and can decide to change the software offerings at anytime. Not to say Adobe will do any of the things but the CC terms of service are quite clear.
I like using the Adobe software (currently using CS6; have been an Adobe user since photoshop 3). I’m on a Mac, although I keep a PC around to view worst-case scenario of the sites I create. I prefer Mac for my work (web & print design).
I’m in Toronto Canada and usually web works fine, but every once in a while there’s no access – with a subscription model I’d have to stop working until it’s restored; do not want to risk that, as Murphy’s Law says it would happen the day of a major deadline.
I used to use Corel back when they had a Mac version. I’d move back to the CoredDRAW suite in an instant, but they no longer offer a Mac version. I do own the PC version and use it occasionally.
I noticed that it now even has web design software. I wonder if they will now create a mac version (after all Mac now runs on intel, so it shouldn’t take too long!
Not happy, Adobe – please re-think this forced subscription move.
Robert, a clarification you may find illuminating:
Creative Cloud does not require a continuous internet connection. Monthly licenses must check in every 37 days, annual licenses every 99. If your internet access is routinely unavailable for that long, you might consider moving regardless of Adobe’s product strategies. 😉
With previous versions of the programs, it was possible to install one serial on two computers. Does it stay true with the Creative Cloud?
Yes, you still get two activations, and this is one area where Adobe has vastly improved the experience.
You can now remotely deactivate computers yourself—so if you use more than two computers, or have a computer die while activated, you can easily choose which two are activated at any given time.
Cracks are starting to show up in the media… http://seekingalpha.com/article/1412811-adobe-jumps-off-a-cliff-leaves-parachute-behind?source=nasdaq
If you are looking for an alternative for photoshop try pixelmator (mac) for 15$ you will never look back, besides it already has some of the new cool things like treat text as shapes. Awesome interface, really easy to use, if you are already familiar with photoshop. They have a free 30 day trial. I am a student in New jersey usa. You can create vector images, edit resolution, use layer styles, layer mask & more.
Pixelmator is great but don’t push it as a Photoshop replacement except for non-pro users. Those working with very large images or requiring 16-bit image editing are out of luck, for example. More fundamental is its lack of adjustment layers and non-destructive filters. And of course it’s Mac-only.
There are Mac pro users that don’t need 16-bit editing or non-destructive filters. Adjustment layers are great time savers but I spent a years without them. Don’t need to go too far back to see those features missing in Photoshop. Of course Photoshop 4 doesn’t seem too far back in my brain, so take that with a grain of salt. Point being just because you’re a pro user and you need it doesn’t mean another pro does. Different industries, different needs. Go through any forum and you’ll see someone screaming how PS will never be good enough because it needs X or Y, or pro users don’t need X or Y, or what have you.
Incidentally, I installed PS4 on an old laptop the other day. It used to be on an old Pac Bell Pentium 75mhz machine of mine, and I put it on a 800mhz Dell to see if it would run and what the experience was like–OMG amazing fast load. Blink your eye and you miss the splash screen. Everything is screaming fast, but feels so quaint now I actually laughed out loud remembering doing posters on the thing with the god-awful text dialog box and faking bevels with selections and dodge/burn. LOL, things are so much faster to do since layer styles and the new text tool. Can’t tell you how much I loved layer groups/folders when those came out.
Anyway, to each their own. For me the can’t-live-without tools and features are: clipping paths, cmyk/gs/rgb/index, pen tool, layers and layer groups, basic filters, dodge/burn, clone, heal (god I love the heal brush), liquify, lock transparency, channels, adjustments, basic filters, basic brushes, wacom support… and probably others I can’t think of off the top of my head. I’de really miss adjustment layers if they went away though.
Nicely put. You are exactly the user that Adobe should be paying attention to. But are they?
I’m not an alpha user, or among the most skilled, I’m just a long standing user who uses their tools to make a living. Adobe’s engineers listen in my experience, but sometimes the answer is no –and that’s not always a bad thing. The engineers are awesome people and (IIRC) they have a group of awesomely-skilled alpha users that help them be the leaders in the industry. That said, this is not an engineering decision. I would have to categorize this one as a money-grab, a preemptive strike at holding onto market share, or some sort of realization that they can’t continue this level/pace/price of engineering at the current release schedule but need the constant revenue to keep healthy. Maybe all 3. Whatever it was, it must have been one hell of a motivator to risk the company by pissing off such a large percentage of your user base.
Adobe isn’t stupid though. By keeping CS6 available near term they can use the scramble of un-updated standard license users to get the final version, to pump up this year’s sales numbers for investors. That way they can show a big profit in the first year of the perpetual-payment program and say it’s been a success regardless of how things shake out with users. You can be sure analysts are going to be digging through the numbers though, and their reputation with users regardless of the outcome has taken a big hit.
We do a lot of professional image adjustment and masking with the standalone OnOneSoftware and Topaz plug-ins. No need to open Photoshop.
Also, Corel Painter is great for image manipulation.
For the PC, Corel has great products. A lot of designers I know use these products professionally.
Also try Photoline – http://www.pl32.com.
Its 16 bit per channel, and supports CYMK and Lab. It’s 59 euro, available for mac and PC. (Oh and the cost is for a permanent licence).
Mike, thanks for posting the link to the Photoline software. Yet another very nice alternative to Adobe software.
The way existing customers have been treated is very poor. If you are starting out from scratch, with no or a very small investment in Adobe Software, then CC is an intriguing option.
I am also very keen to hear what Adobe will do about access to your work when you stop subscribing. The fact that Adobe (through jnack on this forum) have indicated that it is an issue they are looking at is a little (tiny bit) re-assuring. But it should have been obvious from day one that this would be an issue. So you should have an answer for that now.
My experience is such that I have no confidence in Adobe to either
1) Do the right thing
2) Know what they are doing in the future anyway.
For example, I had CS3. I was told I had to upgrade to 5.5 Master Collection before a certain date or I would no longer be able to upgrade at all. So I did, costing me around £ 1000.00
Literally days after this Creative Cloud is announced, with no U.K. Pricing available for months. It would have been beter to annouce this before you force everyone to upgrade, no ? Later CS6 is released. So I upgrade again at a cost of around £ 460.
Then I find out that there are features that CC subscribers will get that perpetual licence owners will not. Thank you for making a paying customer feel like a second class citizen.
Then the announcement that perpetual licences are no longer going to be available, and CC is now the only way to get the new versions.
Oh, but as a ‘valued’ CS6 customer I will get a discount. of £ 10 per month for the first year, over the cost of the Cloud if were still on CS3. So I spent around £ 1500.00 with you in the last 18 months, and I get a £ 120.00 discount on a Cloud subscription.
Does this look like a company that has a clue about what direction it is taking, or one that is making things up as it goes along.
Frankly, I have no confidence in Adobe, which is a shame as they make excellent software. It would not surprise me if there is a big ‘U turn” in a month or two. I don’t trust them to know what they are doing. Just like the ‘ you must upgrade by this date’, which kept getting extended last year.
So I’ll sit on CS6, and I will hope that by the time I need to upgrade either Adobe will have come to it’s senses, or other players have moved in to take their market share.
It’s pretty shabby, by any standard.
“So I’ll sit on CS6, and I will hope that by the time I need to upgrade either Adobe will have come to it’s senses, or other players have moved in to take their market share.”
That sums up my plans as well. Thankfully Adobe really hit the ball out of the park with Photoshop CS6!
A lease to own option seems like the best solution for all involved:
Adobe would allay people’s fears* about losing [editable] access to their work. We’d still have leverage to keep Adobe accountable to improving the software. Adobe wouldn’t have to go back to maintaining two licensing systems and would get the benefits they trumpet with the subscription model.
* Similar to how users’ fears of Apple computers were allayed after the Intel switch because they could always run apps in a Windows VM. Often this is an option never used, but it’s reassuring all the same.
And of course the other benefit of lease to own is that Adobe wouldn’t have to engineer special non-editable modes of all their apps. That would be a continuing overhead that would impact innovations in new features that truly add value to the subscribers.
So with the continual release of new functionality as they are ready what becomes of the prerelease program that some of us participated in. Is the feedback on these limited to the likes of NAPP and similar organizations.
Since I have CS6, as I read it I get CC for 20.00 a month for the first year. By the time I get to the end of that first year god only knows what Adobe will decide to charge me. Once Adobe has most of the world forced to subscription services what is stopping them from saying “This is quite working out for us, we need to raise the price by another 40% (pick a number). I think that if Adobe was truly listening to their customers there would be a choice of either CC or buying the software license like we currently do.
Message from Adobe site:
Some customers are unable to sync files through the Creative Cloud Connection app. We’re working to restore service as soon as possible.
I have nothing against paying a subscription for a service, but if you rent something it shouldn’t cost you more than buying it.
Unfair european prices (+60%) and a single offer that will cost me more than the previous system are definitively pulling me toward alternatives despite me being a long long time user (since I was 14 starting with PS 1.5).
I get it that CC is cheap regarding all the apps available in it but I just don’t have the budget and frankly the need for all of it.
At 40€ incl. Tax a month in Europe a lot of people would probably adopt the CC immediately even if for people like me that where plenty content with the design standard suite it would still be a hard bargain.
Most freelance and some agencies around me already have illegal copies due to the price of the licences, others have outdated ones for the same reasons. Now CC make that price even steeper.
By the way, I don’t think this will resolve Adobe piracy problem in any way. It will either enhance it or push users to other solutions like this thread tends to show. People that were never imaging using something else are suddenly trying new things, perhaps even developing new ones.
Not, it will resolve Adobe piracy problem. That’s just another excuse to justify the forced cloud subscriptions.
Like Blu-Ray was supposed to solve DVD piracy ?
The dance between pirates and editor is a loosing one, every counter measure has a weakness.
The key is to find an equilibrium, between price and ease of use.
Apple did that with the music industry.
They didn’t try to solve piracy but they provided a legal, easier way to buy a song for a reasonable price.
Right now Adobe is offering to rent their software but at the same price most of us used to buy them.
My guess is, most of us wouldn’t complain about having to rent their software if they considered the price right.
Wow… I have to admit that in the twenty plus years I have been involved with Adobe and their products, I have never seen anything quite like this negative response to the Creative Cloud.
Before I respond, I need to give a disclaimer. I do a lot with Adobe products: I’m an international speaker who has written 17 books (mostly on Adobe and Apple products), and my videos and DVD’s are distributed around the globe. I also work with Adobe products in a client-based business: from graphics to video production. I’m not trying to toot my own horn, but I want to say up front that I do make money off of companies like Adobe, and I want the relationship to continue.
To be honest with you, the Creative Cloud membership is not just a switch of a business model… To me, it’s a dream come true. I use all of the Adobe products, so the price is actually cheaper, and since I’m the kind of nutter that needs to stay on top of upgrades, the Cloud really serves my purposes.
You have to look at it this way: We never, in the history of Adobe, ever “owned” any of the software… They are licensed to us. The problem was that way back when Adobe began, they lacked the technology to implement a true leasing policy.
So, they gave us the software and a serial number, but we were still under a license agreement. I interviewed an Adobe exec (many years ago) for a magazine article, and they confided in me that there were more pirated copies of Adobe products in the market place than legal ones. So, when the technology became available Adobe, and other software companies implemented a more secure way to purchasing software with online verification for two systems. Not perfect, but it helped.
Now, the technology allows the implementation of a true license/lease agreement, through the technology of the cloud. In truth, this is not a true “Cloud” implementation, more of a hybrid cloud, but let’s not split hairs.
This is a new process, and there will probably be changes in the future to this new model… but you need to give it a chance. Adobe does listen to what you are saying, but they are a big ship, and sometimes change take time. And if you don’t think Adobe doesn’t understand what happened to Quark, you’re mistaken.
Go out to the Adobe site and explore the possible options, and then let Adobe know what you like, and what you don’t like. If, in the end, the model doesn’t fit what you need, then you can always vote with your pocketbook.
But, in the end, if you approach Adobe with torches and pitchforks, please don’t burn them completely down… I need the work 😉
I respect your opinion, it is a ver biased one, but I still respect it. You have to push Adobe because this is your livelihood and that’s ok.
What you are not getting is that the cloud is not a dream come true for a lot of people. It is not a good thing by any means.
It’s also one sided. Adobe and role like you you the main people that benefit.
What Adobe needs to do, ithey want to keep customers, is to give customers a CHOICE and not force any model on anyone. Let the customer pick what th customer wants. Nits that simple. Adobe can make this work so that everyone, people like me and people like you, are happy. You choose the cloud and I choose a perpetual license. Everyone is happy.
Because f Adobe’s arrogance and lack of fkexibilities with the customers, I don’t see a good picture for Adobe’s future. At least no the same way it has been more many years.
People like you will get affected as well. You may even need to start training on other non-adobe software to keep your business going strong.
I lot of people will stop using Adobe software. That’s just the reality of things. This is why you have never experienced this type of phenomena before. People don’t want or will not be forced into cloud subscriptions. This can’t be clearer.
Thanks for the post.
I really understand what you’re saying, and my comments although couched in humor, covered a complete lack of understanding on exactly what Adobe is doing…
From my viewpoint it’s about the bottom line, and by putting everyone on a subscription basis, Adobe maintains a steady income stream… no more skipping versions to save money, or if the new features don’t appeal to you. You can choose to skip an upgrade; however, you will still be paying a monthly fee… pay to play.
This cloud subscription is new, and I believe that the eventual shape of the cloud will change. And that change will occur by the winds blown by the users.
I still believe that the current state of the cloud is a dream come true for me; however, I understand that I am in a small minority of users. Yet, I hold out hope (I’m a hopeless romantic), that Adobe will see that the origins cloud model needs a few tweaks here and there. Well… maybe more than a few.
I guess the only thing to do it to keep our voices strong, let Adobe know what they are doing right, and what they’re doing wrong. And, then wait and see what develops.
Thanks for the response… Live Strong.
I still think that Adobe can make it so that everyone is happy. There is no need to force people into a subscription model that they don’t want.
Unfortunately, I think is too late, It’s going to be very hard to trust Adobe from now on.
Good luck with your business. Don’t put all your eggs in one basket. You are better than that.
I wish you the best. Thanks for the chat!
I clicked on your link and you apparently have a phising site. Seriously?
phishing site… really???
What in the world are you talking about?
When I clicked on your link this is what came up. http://twitpic.com/d0zpo7
Well… I’m not sure what’s going on… I don’t even know of any links that I’ve added to any posts I’ve made…
This is nuts… Is it possible someone has highjacked my identity, and made a post… would you do me a favor and link me to the original post that I made…
The Adobe pricing model is way out of line. Where the previous TLP licensing would be an upgrade price of about $299 every 2 years, we’d now be paying between $480-$840 per year, every year! That’s a massive increase in cost. If I had 30 licenses and paid $300/seat every two years for a standard TLP upgrade, it would be $9,000 every two years. With Creative Cloud Team – would now pay $14,400/year, every year (@ $40/month/user), which would be $20,000 more every two years. Over three years, this would be an even bigger difference, as CS was typically updated every two years – so three years would cost me $54,000 with Creative Cloud ($65,000 without the 2nd year discount which expired on 5/31), and only $9,000 for a standard CS license upgrade. If we didn’t need CS to operate, and have to retrain users, I’d switch.
Don’t really need to retrain depending on what business you’re in. My clients and I all talked about it since we have to share files constantly. The overall response about it was, “is Adobe nuts or stupid?”. The ones that (halfheartedly) passed the subscription plan up to accounting/purchasing/senior management all got the same response from disbelieving higher-ups. Just not an option (and the same questioning of Adobe’s sanity).
Most of the multi-seat, multi-department offices that don’t have all seats upgraded to CS6 are talking about standardizing on CS6 and stopping over the next year or two. The upgraded offices are going no further. I steered everyone away from Lightroom (most of them use DSLRs in the marketing depts) and suggested not to dig in Adobe’s yard while there was all this subscription crap mounded everywhere. They had already concluded the same thing. And everyone is pissy about this, or downright angry.
So… we (clients and I) aren’t switching, but we aren’t going any further either. We’ve gotten together and will keep each other compatible by not passing CS6 so we can trade files with 100% compatibility and editability. A few are trying out GIMPShop and other open source programs and we’re sharing what we learn about stumbling blocks. The Contribute and Dreamweaver users (still have a few clients there) are talking about using a CMS now–which isn’t a bad move for them. The interesting thing about all this is that we’re all communicating a lot more and there is a common purpose. The unfortunate thing for Adobe is that it isn’t a purpose they’re going to enjoy long-term.
Adobe Systems Incorporated Stock Quote -0.84%.
Student working on our web page using Dreamweaver told me about CC two days ago. Found this blog searching for Dreamweaver alternative although I payed for boxed SW 600€ and used it for only 3 weeks.I simply don’t trust such greedy predator.
ADBE stock WILL go DOWN!
Although, I am a CC subscriber and actually like it, I still think it is a problem to discontinue selling the packages. On the plus side the CC gives you access to all of Adobe’s programs. But, not every designer needs or wants Webkit, or Muse, or Lightroom. What if they just want InDesign? I don’t like the fact that I could lose access to my work which is one problem I have with the Cloud in general. Some of my clients are still using Adobe Indesign CS4 and I wonder if they will bother to upgrade. It still works for their needs.
Shouldn’t the market decide what is best instead of Adobe? Still, hoping for a good open source page layout program. Then I am going to convert my clients who don’t want to subscribe to the Cloud. Even if I’m onboard, ultimately, I need compatibility with my client’s software. If I have CC and they don’t how is that a good thing?
The main issue is really much more serious.
What moving to a subscription model means in the long run is that Adobe will stop any kind of innovation on products that is has no real competition. With subscription revenue Adobe has zero incentive to innovate. They went to subscriptions in the first place because they could not grow the permanent license revenue enough. So they concluded that the market is saturated and that they will only do permanent license where they have a serious competitive threat (i.e. Lightroom is still growing and has a serious threat from Apple – so they kept the permanent license option).
For the design suite they decided that they are dominating and entrenched so they forced us to subscribe – thereby decoupling revenue from innovation effort. So now they are basically like your cable company. Zero innovation into the future. They will eventually start doing service tiers and will sell you “channel packages” with each channel having one product you really need and a bunch of stuff you don’t so that you would end up subscribing to the highest end channel with everything. And I can absolutely guarantee that the price will continually go up until too many people drop off.
From this point on, it’s just a numbers game for Adobe. Jon Nack will soon lose his job and most of the developers too. They are just overhead now that innovation incurs cost but revenue will not grow because of it.
So it may not happen next month – but mark my word – the writing is on the wall. The innovation chapter is over. So it the customer centric chapter. From here on out, it will start slowly sinking in that Adobe is on its way to be as innovative and as loved as your local cable monopoly.
Very well said Arnon. This is very true.
We can’t keep supporting this type of behavior by Adobe.
It’s time to move on to other software.
So, if the subscription model means that Adobe can stop innovating doesn’t it make sense to just stick with CS6? I am not sure that will be the case but what I am worried about is that they will keep increasing the monthly subscription price. If all your files are in InDesign CC then you would have no choice but to continue to pay the subscription fee or lose access to your previous work. I am currently paying the 29.95 a month but that will go up to 49.95 at the end of August.
CS6 is a temporary short solution for now, but in the long run, it will not work. Adobe is no longer upgrading CS6 with new features, and as computer hardware changes, CS6 will have to be retired.
Adobe is using CS6 as a trap to have us stick around long enough for them to try to convince us to keep making monthly payments to them. CS6 also keeps us completely DEPENDENT on Adobe software with no room to grow.
The way I would use CS6 to my benefit is to use it while I am learning and gradually switching to other software. This will guarantee me a better future as a creative professional.
And yes, once they got you on CS and CS files, it will be hard to go back and you will be stuck. Don’t fall for that trap.
Do you career and yourself a favor and start migrating to other software. There are plenty good alternatives out there to get the job done well. If you have to use CS6 for now, that’s fine, but learn other software as soon as possible and gradually switch your work over.
I don’t mean to wish anyone ill will, but in this case I think what Adobe has done is bad for everyone – including Adobe. I hope CC is a failure and they replace the nitwit CEO with someone who has better respect for customers and customer service. Adobe has become what Quark had become 15 years ago. And we all know what happened the second there was an alternative to Quark…
What other software? I don’t know of any open source page layout program. There obviously is a need for one along the lines of LibreOffice except with good typography control.
If my clients do not want to subscribe to the Cloud then why should I? Part of my job as a freelancer is making sure my workflow is compatible with my client’s workflow.
Like you, a lot of our clients want nothing to do with the Adobe cloud subscription model and I don’t blame them. We will staying away from the Adobe forced cloud model and move on to other software like, many creative professionals are doing.
Here is a list that I found online that helped us a lot when researching Adobe alternative software:
I hope this helps!
Looks good! Thanks!
Leslie, if CC is all you’ve ever used then you probably don’t have a lot of legacy files to worry about and can switch to something else depending on what industry you’re in.
If you’re like me and have been with Adobe products for about 20 years, then you have a much more difficult decision to make.
I don’t think Adobe will stop innovating entirely, but they have made clear in public statements that one of the ‘good’ things they are getting by switching to the CC model is the opportunity to “slow down [creating new features]” and work on little things instead of the next whiz-bang new feature to get people to upgrade all the time. In my mind that means that they view Photoshop as largely feature-complete and mature, so they’ll have difficulty convincing people to keep upgrading–but they still want/need continuous revenue from it (hence CC). I think the big developments in CC will be other supplemental programs like Muse and Story instead of the core that we’ve been using.
I don’t think CS6 is “a trap” as Willie writes (I reserve that for CC), though I can see the reasoning. I agree with him that it allows Adobe time to try to convince users to switch, but like a double-edged sword it also gives competitors time to catch up. More dangerous, it gives those competitors a stationary target that hits the heart of Adobe’s long-term users. I personally think keeping CS6 available was a (correct) lesson learned from the Apple Final Cut X debacle, that rightfully destroyed Apple’s credibility in the Pro Video market. If you aren’t familiar with it, ask anyone in video production for a litany of horror stories. Adobe also needs CS6 for a short term revenue boost from those who don’t want CC, so Adobe post better financials between now and when they forecast CC penetration to hit their bare-ass-minimum that will make investors happy.
All that said, CS6 is a long-term dead-end if you are starting out. They’re only updating it to work the next OS on MAC/PC then it’s likely broken unless you run it in a Virtual Machine (like Parallels). I love CS, but if you’re new, you might as well try Gimp, Pixelmator and others before getting too deep into the Adobe ecosystem. Photoshop is the most open/compatible of all Adobe programs (in my opinion) but the others aren’t quite as forgiving. If you are using things like After Effects, Flash and the like, you might be better off trying Flame and learning HTML5 on another tool if you don’t want to be locked into a perpetual rental. Though I see from Adobe’s mailings its now a “membership”. Now you’re part of the club and get a secret handshake!
I don’t think you’ll have to worry about subscription rates going higher for a little while–at least not for a few years. They may even make them a bit lower if CC adoption isn’t as quick as they hope. After this PR debacle they’ll need to get as many on board as possible before they start asking for more cash. They don’t need anyone saying “I told ya so!” with a big rate hike. It’s simply not in their best interest for now, and there isn’t enough lock-in with CC files at this point for leverage. Adobe investors will wait probably 3-4 years (2 old upgrade cycles and a little pad) to see if CC pans out. If it goes spectacularly well, prices might stay the same. If it does marginally, then rate hikes will come quickly. If it does poorly, then Adobe is in serious trouble and who knows what they do next. 3 years from now is an important milestone though. The last CS6-compatible OSs will be on their way out leaving CS without full OS compatibility, and hardware and software advances are really going to be pressuring CS users to upgrade to be competitive.
CS6 will give people like me a few years to try new programs and watch the competition mature and have ways of opening CS6-and-lower files more accurately (or at all). At least that’s the hope. Of course Adobe could change it’s mind and take away the subscription-shut-off threat and offer perpetual licenses again… but they said it’s set in stone, and there’s no budging on that.
I haven’t used CC at all yet. I have used the Creative Suite since 2003.
Just don’t jump on the CC bandwagon until they fix/address the pay-or-die scam, I mean scheme…
I must be misunderstanding then. There is a post from Leslie above that says “Although, I am a CC subscriber and actually like it, I still think it is a problem to discontinue selling the packages.” And another that says “I am currently paying the 29.95 a month but that will go up to 49.95 at the end of August.” so I figured you were on CC.
If you started using CS in 2003 you probably have a couple versions of CS and a lot of legacy files like me then. You’re in the same boat. I’m going no further than CS6 given the CC arrangement. All of my clients have stated they are doing the same since their bean counters find CC an unacceptable option. As long as everyone stops at CS6 my world remains stable for a while. Though Adobe didn’t make a lot friends, and now I have to content with the prospect of dealing in multiple software packages again (as I once did with Macromedia and Quark) as others defect.
I subscribed to the cloud last August but have not downloaded CC yet. I am using CS6.
CS6 has become the same as Windows XP. It’s more than enough for most everyone, and it’s costs too much or is too much of a hassle to upgrade to the next version.
Adobe is still pushing the creative cloud concept. I have made a business decision not to support this and will not buy, rent or otherwise another piece of Adobe software until a reasonable solution is worked out with it’s customer base.
End or story.
End of story!
I understand that you’re doing your business..But if you really want to run this “rental system” for your business (you say it’s for supporting some of us who can’t afford the big box yet……yeah.) AND not lose your “loyal customers”,
How ’bout doing both?
selling boxed copies & rental system altogether!
Adobe is also taking on a model not unlike crack dealer use. They aer willing to dispense with an initial subscription at a bargin rate and then you are hooked. Will there be downgrade options if it turns out one is unable to afford the monthly fees or face losing access to one’s own hard work (I think not). How long will it be before Adobe torpedos CS6< users the way they did with Pagemaker users? Once they have as many people on board as they need to rationalize the Cloud model I think CS6< users will wake one day to discover they are in dire need of jumping on the bus or investigating what is the latest version of Quark (or Xara). . . . 🙁
I honestly think that $50/month is too much, as a casual user who makes no money off this. I use it to edit my own personal pictures and homevideos, and enjoy Lightroom, Photoshop and Premiere, but 50/month?? I did cloud this last year due to the intro-price, but now I have to go back to my cs5 photoshop+lightroom (and use premiere elements for video). Adobe is not budging on extending the more reasonable monthly subscription price…
I think that I hear you saying you are not a serious producer of professional results, and hence would like a suitable low cost option? No problem; you can still make beautiful images.
and since you are into money saving, I presume your camera system cost under $500 (the Canon g15 is great, and I presume that there are others similar), and that your computer system is also under $500, and that you do not update either more often than every 5 years or so? I mean being frugal certainly wouldn’t just be related to complaining about software, right?
and of course there are lower cost software options, so I maybe don’t understand your problem?
Scott, I don’t really think you get the big picture here.
Amateurs and a lot of freelances just can’t afford the CC subscription, CS was far less pricy.
Since you compare software and hardware, lets detail the investments a bit:
When you buy a $1,500 computer you count on it to last a few years.
If you change your computer every 3 years it means that your computer budget is $500/year not $1,500.
You do the same with most softwares, a $500 software that has a paying upgrade every 2 years can in fact be considered to cost $250 /year.
I used to renew my Adobe Creative Suite licence every 4 years, then every 2 years when the system changed.
Even with renewing my licence every 2 years, it used to cost about $200 per year.
With the CC my licence will cost me $960 a year !
Now lets push Adobe’s logic to the edge:
What if Apple did like Adobe and moved to a subscription system ?
You’ll get the best machine Apple builds every year !
Apple would only have one option, their best computer to date, the MacBook Retina 15″ ($3,798).
Users needs to be mobile and with all that power they can explore and work on any project big or small.
The subscription would be only $320 a month and your machine would be replaced once a year.
Of course the subscription price in Europe would be $480, because of the translations costs and the phone support.
This would mean that suddenly your only choice would be to invest almost $4,000 a year where previously you where only spending about $500 /year.
I know this example isn’t perfect because you have a real alternative to the Mac, you can buy a PC.
Currently they are no real alternative to Photoshop and the Adobe ecosystem (Illustrator, Indesign, etc).
Now don’t think that I am against a subscription based system, I think this is the way to go.
The idea of having access to every software that Adobe develop is really tempting…
The problem here is the price !
If there was a CC design standard subscription at $25 /month, I would have been the first to subscribe.
With the current price, I just can’t afford to upgrade anymore.
I bought a refurbed quad-core pc last year for $250 that will last me just fine for the next couple of years as well. That means if I have it for 3 years, it cost me me about $80-85/year. Far cheaper than the 3 programs I would like to subscribe to that would cost me $600+/year.
I use very nice cameras (dslr) but again, I may spend $1000 on a body, and it lasts me for a good 5-6 years, which is less than $200/year. I have some great lenses, but often 10-20 years old, so even at high prices, again, not much per year..
Soooo….I have nice equipment for taking pictures and editing them(Hardware), but I am supposed to spend MORE on the software than the rest combined?
Here’s an idea…How about Adobe offer up a 3 or 4 program package at a discounted price, at least for people who do this for a hobby.
If I made good money on using these products, I’d probably be happy paying far more than $50/month, but it is really bad practice to not differentiate professionals and hobbyists.
Tom, you don’t have to defend yourself here. Fabrice was just throwing out troll bait. What Adobe has done is ignore it’s longstanding customers – the same people that enabled them to become the behemoth they are – and now they are attempting to force us into a pay or die scheme.
The longer they ignore our concerns, the more I think they are truly acting out of fear rather than “good will”. See, they have told us that the CC model is to our benefit to provide us with constant updates and cheaper (that’s been proven not true in various ways). The truth I believe, is that Adobe feels it can no longer innovate to the point where their customers will upgrade at the rate that they need to sustain their massive size. This is the reason they want to force us into a subscription plan so they can have constant income. This is also why they are afraid to offer a way out of the pay or die scheme.
The one thing we can all do, those of us that are unhappy with their new business model, is just don’t give in. CS6 does everything I personally need for the foreseeable future while other companies with friendlier policies (perpetual licenses) begin to fill the gaps.
Come on now. So hobbyists and fine artists cannot be “serious producers of professional results”?
You are forcing us to subscribe to the entire Adobe suite. If you are only interested in still raster images (for instance a photographer – professional or not) then over 75% of the products in the suite are completely irrelevant to you. To someone who uses most of the products in the suite maybe $600/year is OK. But of you’re really using 2 or 3 out of the whole suite then it is a huge price hike over the past cost, and you cannot “pace it” like you could before.
For some reason Adobe decided to force us to get all the products. Did you consider for a second that a large population of your users is simply not interested in the entire suite even if it was given for free? Why force us to get rights for products we don’t need or want just to get the few products that we do want?
I agree with a lot of people here. The creative cloud forced subscriptions is silly. The consumer should make the decision of whether they want to subscribe or get a perpetual license. Not Adobe.
The good news is that now is the time to move on to non-Adobe software. If CS6 works for you now, use it until it no longer works with you OS or computer. You will eventually have to switch to non-Adobe software anyway. cS6 is not a permanent solution, but it can help some people for now.
I personally prefer to switch to non-Adobe software now to avoid file problems down the road.
Good luck everyone. Stay firm and don’t subscribe to a system you don’t like. Move on and do what’s best for you.
I didn’t mean to say that artists, amateurs, etc. don’t produce ‘professional’ results; in fact many are probably better than professional. I was commenting on those persons wanting to use professional products, software in this case, for next to nothing. On the hardware front, I admire the person who posted about their frugal solution, but most of us don’t do that. We buy what we need, and it probably costs more than $60 a month over time. Think about your system, including everything. True a basic low cost sys can be had for $500 or so, but who does only that? a few I am sure, but not most who want professional results.
Someone commented on using “only” 2 or 3 suite products: isn’t that on the order of $60 a month over time? and isn’t one product $20/mo so 2 are $40? I didn’t look up the prices, so am guessing here.
Also, how many here don’t spend $50/mo or more on eating lunch out or Starbucks? very few I bet.
The bottom line is, Adobe does not make any distinction between people who need only 2 or 3 products, or everything, or between people who make money on it, or those that don’t. I think 50/month is a steal for a professional that uses many programs. As a hobbyist who only uses a small portion of the package, I was ok with paying 30/month (that is far from “next to nothing”).
By the way, and again, I guess I’m frugal, but before starting using creative cloud, I actually bought Photoshop CS6 on Amazon for $187 (there was a $400 promotional rebate at the time). I can live with that for a long time (CC did not have much in terms of changes). Lightroom, I have version 4. Version 5 did not add a lot, but I suppose at some point I may upgrade to 5 for $79. I guess I will wait for another sale on Premiere CS6.
Oh, and I don’t go to Starbucks 🙂
There’s also a big difference between you deciding when you are ready to upgrade, whether it’s worth it or not and Adobe’s Pay or Die scheme. It’s the same reason of not being tied to a company’s constraints that I have never leased a car and choose to buy. You may lease, but at least there was choice. Adobe took that away with CC and for that reason, I will be sticking with CS6 for the time being and will continue to investigate alternatives.
That is a good point, definitely. As far as I’m concerned, both Photoshop CC and Lightroom 5 added very little, so I suppose the most progress in the future will be in (for me) the more obscure programs.
I’m taking the opinions of experienced users seriously-so if I’m going to start an extensive hobby I shouldn’t bother?